Though you might not know it from reading Stellar Maze, there are actually INFJs that have their shit together. Yeah, they don’t have any of the emotional problems that I speak of in the Fi id series. I mean, they do, but well this is exactly what Saturn gives, the ability to rise above that shit, and take the world by storm.
Examples of the type
- Alan Rickman
- George Clooney
- Harvey Specter
- Richard Gere
Remember Die Hard? I mean, if you don’t, where have you been, my friend? This movie introduced us to the best, most classiest, sophisticated, tasteful villain we ever had to delight to lay eyes on. And what about that voice? Yeah, plenty of people talk about Alan Rickman’s gorgeous voice and why not, it’s a stunner.
So, basically if you remember Hans Gruber in the movie Die Hard, you’re gonna have a good overall picture of this Saturnian INFJ thing I’m getting at. And this here INTPesque analysis I’m including about the wonders of this villain’s introduction into cinema pretty much nails what I would say about a Saturnian INFJ.
Feast!
A little more modern example of this type is in a cinematically glorious tv show circa 2011 called Suits.
Remember Harvey Specter?
What? You’ve never seen Suits on Netflix? You better hop on it boy if you wanna understand an INFJ who is a closer. Deals. Negotiations. High-level law and corporate finance. Watch Harvey use his Ni to dive into the human equation, to quickly and expediently score wins for the firm, and himself. Masterful!
Remember Richard Gere?
Remember Richard Gere in Arbitrage?
This movie is the epitome of a Saturnian INFJ getting shit done! Again, we have high-level corporate finance. Gere is a billionaire hedge fund magnate and I just gotta say this style in this movie suits him so well.
Man, does Gere look good at around 60 years of age. The beautiful silver hair. Those impeccable suits. This is the Saturnian style. Like Alan Rickman in Die Hard and like Harvey Specter in Suits. Impeccably dressed.
Watch the trailer for Arbitrage to see this silver-haired fox getting shit done with extremely high levels of competence in the world of finance!
And have you seen Ocean’s 11? Have you?
Remember Danny Ocean?
Remember how legit he was at assembling a crew of ace crooks with a highly elaborate plan to take down three casinos in one night? Gotta have your shit together for that.
Takeaways
- Every Saturnian INFJ I listed above was wearing a suit.
- None of them were emotionally tortured artists.
- They all chase MONEY and STATUS
- They use their Ni in the service of achieving money and status.
- They are all highly organized and know how to use other people to accomplish an ambitious objective.
Some of them have principles
- Harvey Specter believes in serving the firm.
- Danny Ocean is a romantic at heart. At bottom he’s trying to get Tess back. Sorta.
- Richard Gere in Arbitrage is a complex character and the movie is something of a morality tale. It leaves us with a question about what is permissible. But he does care about his wife and daughter, and all the investors that placed faith in him. It’s not that simple you see.
- And Alan Rickman in Die Hard…He has impeccable taste and sophistication. He is an artist. He does it all with such class. Values that have been lost to yesteryear, my friend.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask them in the comments below.
What do you think of these Saturnian INFJs?
This article is part of the series The 10 Types of INFJ. Be sure to check that link to read about the other 9 types of INFJ.
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I have some questions!
1) Does the Saturnian INFJ have an implied strong Te (but not strong enough to be classified as a Uranian INFJ whom you said is more INTJ-ish)? Is the Saturnian INFJ the stoic one?
2) So far, I see a little bit of myself in both the Neptunian, Plutonian and the Saturnian type. To be more precise, during some parts of my life where I had to deal with hardships and the joys of the Fi id I felt more Plutonian, right now where things are in some ways more stable, I feel more Saturnian and Neptunian. Or I deal with my emotional problems in a more Neptunian/Saturnian way now, whereas before I did it the Plutonian way. Not sure if it is the natural course of life, or if it’s society and outer circumstances that have “changed” me. I even may feel close to other subtypes that you haven’t described yet as well… Is that possible? Which criterias should I use to subtype myself correctly?
3) I remember vaguely that you previously typed George Clooney as an ENFP. Did he say or do something specific that made you change your mind?
1) Does the Saturnian INFJ have an implied strong Te (but not strong enough to be classified as a Uranian INFJ whom you said is more INTJ-ish)? Is the Saturnian INFJ the stoic one?
The Saturnian INFJ has the strongest implied Te of all the 10 types of INFJ, even more so than the Uranian INFJ.
2) So far, I see a little bit of myself in both the Neptunian, Plutonian and the Saturnian type. To be more precise, during some parts of my life where I had to deal with hardships and the joys of the Fi id I felt more Plutonian, right now where things are in some ways more stable, I feel more Saturnian and Neptunian. Or I deal with my emotional problems in a more Neptunian/Saturnian way now, whereas before I did it the Plutonian way. Not sure if it is the natural course of life, or if it’s society and outer circumstances that have “changed” me. I even may feel close to other subtypes that you haven’t described yet as well… Is that possible?
It’s possible, and I think quite normal for people to see bits of themselves in the different 10 types, or indeed any descriptions of personality. The real key is whether any of these aspects you see in yourself dominate the personality to the extent that we could fairly call it a subtype. Everyone is going to be Plutonian sometimes, Saturnian sometimes, Neptunian and so on.
Which criterias should I use to subtype myself correctly?
Thorough knowledge of the INFJ personality type, thorough knowledge on each of the 10 planetary types and what they tend to look like in actual people, and relatively objective assessment by a competent third party observer such as myself. Because tbh, there is no other competent third party observer that combines MBTI type with astrological planetary types.
3) I remember vaguely that you previously typed George Clooney as an ENFP. Did he say or do something specific that made you change your mind?
It was actually Gabriel Macht (Harvey Specter actor) that did something during the course of when I was watching Suits that was the precursor to me shifting to INFJ for George Clooney. Primarily that I saw similarity in them, and I was stumped on what Harvey Specter’s type was. My first thought was ENFP because I was seeing high Te. This is how I finally got around to the Saturnian INFJ type. Once Harvey was there, George Clooney came along for the ride.
Clooney seems to fit the phenotype of Fe auxiliary w/ Ti tertiary: smooth, slick, and quick-witted. He calculates and adjusts his behavior in the moment to bring off a desired result. He is widely considered to be charming. Harvey is similar. It’s a combination of Ni, Fe and Ti w/Saturnian subtype. Another reason is that Clooney seems more similar to Obama (ISFJ in my book), so that we’re seeing an Fe-Ti kinda schmooze and charm and wit. ENFPs are not as sophisticated this way. I think they have less ability to tailor their expression to the needs of the moment, which is what Fi in the auxiliary position prevents them from doing. Generally speaking, I would say that ENFPs are more like “Pow! This is who I am and this is what I think.”
However, there is an exception to this rule if the ENFP is pulling from their id function of Fe (in Ni context). And here is where I think ENFP can be first-rate manipulators, but I would say that it is more total and not really in the control of the ego of the ENFP, such that they would be more likely to fool themselves in the process.
At any rate, in Clooney I see Fe as I think it looks as an auxiliary function, which means that he LOOKS Fe and can consciously and adeptly CONTROL his Fe. I also see quick Ti as it would manifest in tertiary position toggled with Fe aux. You actually see this in his repartee with Brad Pitt all through Ocean’s 11. It’s quick, witty, and charming. Never at a loss for a clever thing to say.
Until today, with the possible exception of Rickman, none of these actors struck me as leading with Ni. Nothing dreamy-looking about any of them, no stare, no hint they are frequently lost in thought.
After thinking about it I believe you may be right about Clooney. He’s handsome and a star so I initially thought of him as “with it,” but actually if you look closely there can be something disjointed about him at times. Like a kind of strangeness that has got to be tied to Ni when his guard is down and he isn’t trying to mask it. And of course he has great pretensions of being a man of substance, that’s a big tell right there.
Not familiar with the other two characters but perhaps I’ll check them out.
Looking good in a suit, particularly in this cultural moment, does seem like a bit of an INFJ tell. For the right INFJ it can be a great tool for projecting competence and command, which many of the males in particular seem to really like to do.
You post interesting insights here.
Until today, with the possible exception of Rickman, none of these actors struck me as leading with Ni. Nothing dreamy-looking about any of them, no stare, no hint they are frequently lost in thought.
Ni doesn’t have to be dreamy, it can be quite canny. The Saturnian INFJ is exactly the type of INFJ where Ni will manifest like this: thinking quickly and cleverly, especially in business or financial matters. The planetary type of the INFJ determines the application of the introverted intuition, in this case, business and finance.
The more classically dreamy INFJs are The Neptunian INFJ and the Lunar INFJ, the latter of which, I have yet to write about, but is actually quite important in relation to the Saturnian INFJ, because they are that more Fi INFJ I allude to in the link I made in the first paragraph of this article. The lunar INFJ is THE ARTIST, the kind of INFJ I instinctively started writing about in the early days of Stellar Maze.
The Saturnian INFJ has little artist psychology, or at least inasmuch as they do (as an inescapable side effect of being an INFJ), it is all directed to WORLDLY ends.
I think Richard Gere is a great example of a particular type of INFJ; he has a kind of simmering genius that is restrained and reserved behind a carefully veiled mask. You just get glimpses of it like he’s judiciously serving it up…he even looks a bit shy behind his polish, his eyes sorta half opened.
I’m finding Clooney a tougher sell; his charm is kinda dumped on you whether you want it or not. I’m nowhere as good a typer as Blake but I see him more as an Ne type…like you’ll take his charm and you’ll like it or else go to hell. Gere on the other hand looks much more conscious of others. Just my thoughts not saying I have a clue on the matter.
Rickman I don’t know much about but I can see him as a peculiar instance of an INFJ. I can’t see him as any other type in fact. He seems to have a nasty streak in him that’s desperate to escape.
I wasn’t referring to the *uses* of Ni, but rather how it makes the INFJ/INTJ *appear* to others as a dominant function. One can have very canny and shrewd thoughts, and simultaneously look absorbed in them. Indeed I think this is typical.
INFJs can use Fe to conceal or distract from their inner preoccupation, but there are usually signposts for the initiated. At least, I’ve always thought so.
As you have noted before, some INFJs present in a disconnected, professorial (Ti) way that seems calculated to hide the depths of their Fi id, but ultimately gives them away. I think the Danny Ocean archetype is a wonderful variation on this theme, as it is a more self-serving (in a good way) expression of the gifts of the type. There is no way an INFJ can become Danny Ocean without very great development and expression of their Fe.
I wasn’t referring to the *uses* of Ni, but rather how it makes the INFJ/INTJ *appear* to others as a dominant function. One can have very canny and shrewd thoughts, and simultaneously look absorbed in them. Indeed I think this is typical.
Point taken. My only point was that the Saturnian INFJ will look and seem less “dreamy-looking”, or as Jung said in his book Psychological types about the Ni dominant type “torn off from reality”, than the classical interpretation of an Ni dom.
INFJs can use Fe to conceal or distract from their inner preoccupation, but there are usually signposts for the initiated. At least, I’ve always thought so.
They certainly can use Fe to “distract from their inner preoccupation”, which is pretty much how I interpret Fe for INFJ (and ISFJ), as a masking or chameleon function. Aux. functions are masks. The Fe mask is a smokescreen, a smokescreening function used in misdirection and to throw you off the scent. Obviously this has great use in the acting profession, and the arts in general. Fe aux. is also used as a “revealing function” too, exactly for artistic expression, what the INFJ wants you to see or feel. In either case, it’s calculated. It can be “self-revealing”, as in the self-revealing artist (more in the service of Fi id), or in the case of the conman, who wants to throw you off his scent, and instead of paying attention to this, pay attention to that. Same thing a magician will do with smoke and mirrors.
There is no way an INFJ can become Danny Ocean without very great development and expression of their Fe.
Exactly. 100% agree.
Hello Mr. Blake.
is this combination possible? i think i am in Capricorn-Aquarius Cusp does it makes me this:
Uranian INFJ + Saturnian INFJ = Alien Businessman
If we were just considering the sun position in astrology to ascertain your planetary subtype, then yes we could say that because you are a Capricorn Sun that Saturn would be your strongest planet, or Uranus if you are an Aquarius Sun.
However, the matter is more complicated than that as you would have to look at the entire birth chart to see which planet would be the subtype of the INFJ.
So, to answer your question, it is possible that both Uranus and Saturn could be strong in your chart that they could more or less equally vie for the position of a dominant emphasis such that we could say that you are an Saturnian INFJ combined with a Uranian INFJ.
But it is not likely from Sun position alone, that you are one of those types. If you had a lot of Capricorn or Aquarius in your chart (besides your Sun) + Saturn was in an angular position and well-placed by sign, making a lot of aspects to other planets in your chart (particularly your Sun and Moon and Ascendant ruler), THEN we might conclude that you are a Saturnian INFJ.
However, I don’t need the astro-chart to determine if a person is any one of the 10 types of INFJ. I use visual typing primarily to determine the planetary subtype. It is easy to do with celebrities where there is a lot of this type of information available.
In your case, I’d have to see you to assess the situation. I do offer this type of service where I not only assess the MBTI type, but also the likely planetary subtype. In fact, accounting for all the possible variations of a type via planetary subtype helps to put you on the scent of the main type.
Anyway, yeah.
Thank you for your detailed answer Mr. Blake
Unfortunately i am in a country so far away from yours that can talk in person with each other but i enjoying your articles very much thank you for sharing your knowledge on astrology and MBTI both of them together make a potent combination i don’t see anywhere on the net, thank you
You’re quite welcome, sir! Glad you are digging it.
By the way i’m one of those pisces moons that should be run over with a car or with a bike
Hey baby, kill me, what do I care?